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Damo - Halesowen said:
Marageret, I heard you on Radio5 yesterday and you actually DID criticise teachers. I would make the point that it is NOT teachers who close schools. There was a whole day of vitriol aimed at the teaching profession yesterday, and whatever you intended to say, the quotes you made that were replayed were critical of teachers and the teaching profession. However, I am sorry you were insulted on here. You didn’t deserve that.
It is easy to lead a single interest group. Local councils had to consider ALL interests yesterday and would have been well aware of the pros and cons of closing schools.
Can I ask what your reaction would have been if councils had not closed schools then there had been accidents galore on the roads? Possibly deaths? I think I can guess that you would have criticised the schools for being open.
Finally, be very careful what you say to the press. Their agenda is very very anti-teacher; especially when we have time off or at party conference time. They used your comments to add griss to their mill.
# 4 February 2009 at 7:42 am

Gillyfish said:
I have to totally agree with DAMO! Reading through the comments left, you seem particularly stung by the teachers’ comments; but as a lay inspectore in the past, did you not foresee that teachers would defend themselves. I have to say that I felt all the (admitted) teachers actually left astute comments, but that is my humble opinion.
This is my main point: Our school has risk assessments for candles for quiet reflection time in Assembly; we have no eating sweets on coaches, due to the choking hazard; if we have a trip to the bech, we are advised not to dip a toe, unless their is a lifeguard present ; We complete C.O.S.H.H forms for the correction fluid locked away in the cupboard.
But are we really going to ask Staff to travel miles and brave potentially, hazardous roads, because we have a duty as teachers? A colleague drove yesterday, to his school; one of the only schools open in our area (due to the never-be-defeated-by-two-snowflakes attitude of his Head) He was hit by an oncoming, swerving car. He escaped unhurt, but the car was badly damaged. Who is to blame? He wasn’t thanked by his head for risking his safety to get there.
I honestly think that the parents Outloud Group would also be leading (Out Loud) the charge for a Head’s head if anything terrible happened to their child on the way to or from a snow-bound school.
I hope you are not personally offended by this, and that it makes it onto your discussion
(oh and great advertising for your group! Before this, there were only 1 or 2 comments left!!)
Steve G
# 4 February 2009 at 8:29 am

Sandra said:
Margaret – Following on from the messages on your site – take a look at what parents think – have a look at the comments on the mumsnet website as well. I don’t know who you represent, but you seem to have annoyed many people, me especially. I am a Mum, but my daughter is a teacher, who today 04/02, still has 8 inches of snow in front of her garage, and her road is blocked. I certainly wouldn’t want her to endanger her life for the sake of as it has been suggested ‘reading stories and quizzes’ in the school hall!
She is today digging a path, so that she can endanger her life, to drive to School, as comments like yours, have no doubt, put pressure on schools to re-open unnecessarily.
My daughter was due to take 90 children into the maritime museum from Surrey on Monday – how irresponsible would it have been if her head had not cancelled it, the children will still be enriched by the experience, she has spent her time at home rearranging the trip.
People like yourself infuriate me, you must like the sound of your own voice – if you were an offsted inspector, why don’t you spend your time teaching parents how to bring up their children in a more caring respectful way – that would be a much greater use of your time, rather than fuelling the press the way you have.
You have made no comment about the amount of work the network of teaching staff have had to make over the past few days, keeping parents and staff informed of the situation – hardly a holiday.
Just for the record during the last few days, my daughter has been at home, re-planning her trip, marking GCSE coursework, writing assemblies, and working on a report for the NCSL after being successful in bidding for money for her school (the bid was made in her own time). Why don’t you tell the press about the amount of time that teachers give of their own, with other activities – i.e. trips abroad, D of E, musical groups, charities week, activities week Eco projects….(these are just things my daughter is involved in – there must be loads more) they are not paid for the countless hours they put in, to help enrich the children’s’ lives – all of which there is a ton of paperwork, to adhere to policies that are scrutinised by OFSETED inspectors!!!
Headteachers would not make decisions to close schools, if it were not necessary, and when you have 2500 staff and children to consider they don’t need people like yourself fuelling the press and TV – why don’t you talk about the children that are badly behaved, that the teachers have to spend so much time with – the detentions that have to be administered, with your experience, you could make a difference to education.
These adverse weather conditions are something that most children may not see for a long time, and judging by the fun that families have been having, and the bringing together of communities by children shopping for the elderly – things that are to few in family life – I think the last few days could be easily written into a citizenship work scheme – don’t you?
I would thank the head of my daughter’s school, for making the decision to close, in the knowledge that he has her welfare at heart, but I will be very worried tomorrow, when she is forced out by the pressure that people like yourselves have created.
# 4 February 2009 at 11:05 am

Ricardo said:
Great blog Margaret. Glad I found this. Don’t let any bad comments put you off. Reading your posts I can see you are a valuable voice in these debates.
Well done for showing so many of peoples comments on your posts and not blocking them off. That must be hard as some people really get quite personal. Checking other sites I see them blocking a lot of posts about this. Cannot blame them really.
Sandra re this comment..
but I will be very worried tomorrow, when she is forced out
Sorry you lost me there are you talking about her being forced out of her house to go to her work place. Or have I misunderstood ?
# 4 February 2009 at 3:47 pm

Sandra said:
Ricardo
My first question to you is – if your children were involved in a coach accident on their way to School, because the coach had overturned on ice – and the Met office had warned it was unsafe to go out…where would you sit in this debate?
The point I am making is: – my Daughter still has 8 inches of snow with ice along her drive, her road is unpassable, so she is unable to get her car out.
Tomorrow, she will leave home at 5.30 am – walk the main road, hope a taxi turns up, to take her to the station, to get a train, which she hopes is running. This involves carrying her laptop, and work that she has been doing at home over the past few days.
On arriving one hopes that enough children can also get to school to deliver a lesson. As she will be teaching Year 11 children tomorrow, she will have to re-deliver this lesson, so that all students are given the information.
Then make the same journey home again!
I am worried about her safety – of course – I wouldn’t be a responsible parent if I wasn’t.
I think too many people are generalising about the situation, rather than looking at localised conditions, and don’t realise that times have changed, and teachers don’t live near the schools.
The other point that seems to be missed, is that the time will be made up, so that the planned lessons are delivered to the students.
I am sure that most heads will look at the possibility of extending the term, or encouraging staff to operate extra revision lessons.
There are always people that seem to think teachers have any easy ride. They should trail a teacher for a week, by then they will realise that they are very hard working dedicated professional people. Luckily the majority of parents appreciate the work and time that they give to developing their children.
# 4 February 2009 at 4:33 pm

Ricardo said:
Nice answer Sandra.
Yes I do understand the position you are making. Sorry if I sounded a bit heartless.
I do have a friend that is a teacher. His school is in quite a run down area (okay I know he would never say that about it). From the stories he tells me of his work days I just do not know how he manages to cope. He definately does not paid enough that is for sure. It is a crime almost what he gets paid for the service he performs.
# 4 February 2009 at 5:16 pm

Margaret Morrissey OBE FRSA said:
To Gillyfish and Halesowen:
Thanks for your comments and taking the time to participate on this blog. I am hoping when my new site is up it will offer a greater opportunity for others to participate. If you ever find the time I would be really grateful if you also participated there and work with me to encourage parents to give even greater support to heads. I think most already do, as I do.
I did not intentionally criticise teachers. As I keep saying and anyone who knows me will agree I am their greatest supporter. I criticised the health and safety laws that are extreme and not always most helpful.
I believe head teachers, not government and not councils should make the decisions for individual schools as I believe they know best when it is safe for a school to be open.
Thank you for the warnings. I have obviously experienced selective editing on many of the comments I have made on this subject and have decided to leave the telephone on the hook today.
# 4 February 2009 at 5:21 pm

Margaret Morrissey OBE FRSA said:
Sandra:
I have never suggested your daughter or anyone should put themselves in danger all my comments have been that there will always be some teachers who cannot get into school and some schools will have to close, it would be stupid to think otherwise.
I also have a daughter who has to travel over an hour by car to work after leaving her children with me each day. She had been fortunate and got to work even though some schools locally have closed. People are making me sound like some uncaring monster who wants everyone to die on the roads which is just nonsense and most unfair I spend hours defending teachers and supporting schools and trying to help many parents but to be honest after this week I am wondering why.
# 4 February 2009 at 6:14 pm

Gillyfish said:
Margaret (and Ricardo to some extent), the discussion points are incredibly valid, and I totally agree on the “bravery” comment of not blocking some of these coments; I’m sure that would happen in the wider media, as they do seem to want to stir the hornets’ nest. I’ve just come off the NPQH site (Headteachers’ / Leaders site for those who hate jargon) and the differnece of opinion on there is EXACTLY the same! You just got hit with it all due to the editing process of the media, I suspect. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye on your page, for as Ricardo suggests, there are things on here that the teaching profession should be looking out for, and as a Trainee head, it’s been interesting to read in my spare(ish) time. I also think that your last comment to Sandra shows the exasperation that heads and teachers feel on a day-to-day basis with parents who have only their point of view stuck right in front of their eyes!
# 5 February 2009 at 12:17 pm

vivienne said:
Hi,hope this isn’t too late to add my comments to the school closure for snow debate. I know there are different perspectives to be taken into account and health and safety has to be taken very seriously and peoples lives should never be put at risk. However I do think we need to be clear whether the latter is the major concern or whether fear of being sued plays a major part in the decision taken to close whole schools down. Some teachers and children are going to be within walking distance to schools. Why not preplan for events like this and have a list of staff who will be able to make it without endagering life and limb and of parents who think that they would be able to get their children there. It’s possible that someone is going to be unlucky and have an accident but that is where a pre plan would allow people to think about whether they could make it in or not.
# 27 February 2009 at 3:48 pm

Jo Howard said:
I support your comments to Sir Steve Redgrave about the need for places to play and the dreadful standards of housing being built. Here in St Ives, Cornwall where I live although there is plenty of open space there are few children in the woods or fields and housing is being built which discourages children from playing in the streets where they take their first steps to outdoor independent play. Today the indoors is just so attractive for all the usual reasons that we must make a fantastic sociable, challenging, fun and inviting environment for children around their houses. If we do not do this the predictions that life expectancy will be shorter for this generation are most likely to come true. Sir Steve is right that more sport is good but the major difference to children’s activity levels will come from changing their behavior out of school in their leisure time when they choose how they spend their time. I recommend “The Last Child in the Woods” by Richard Louv to anyone who cares about all this. Jo
# 1 January 2010 at 5:52 pm

Ali said:
I agree with Vivienne. I also heard that if a teacher doesn’t live locally to the school where they work, then they are to attend the closest school to where they live when there are issues like the recent snow. Does anyone know if this is true. If not, perhaps it should be?
# 18 January 2010 at 6:40 pm

stoohychoab said:
You certainly have some agreeable opinions and views. Your blog provides a fresh look at the subject.
# 22 January 2011 at 4:59 pm

David said:
Firstly what annoys me the most is that the teaching profession seems to think they are above any other profession. Many schools close for the simple health and safety reason that there are not enough teachers in to look after the students.
If other people can get to work during snow then teachers should also. You are not any more special than any office worker or factory worker.
It is time that the teaching profession was treated like any other profession, and have the same expectations, reduce the holidays no one needs 13 weeks off in the year.
If it snows do your best to get into work like every one else, if not possible – roads blocked then yes turn around – but do not use the extreme of children being hurt on the roads, how many children are unsupervised when schools close – do teachers feel a moral regret for any of these that get hurt….
I am sorry but teachers get off your high horse, your job is no more difficult than my own, I expect no more from you than I do myself. Yes your job is important and yes you work hard, but that is not unique to teaching.
# 15 June 2011 at 6:35 am

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