Snow – 2009/2010
Thank you for all your comments. Let me take this chance to help clarify what I said. I have not criticised teachers just the opposite until today I have spent the last 30 years respecting them and defending them against others who did so. I fully accept there will be schools who need to close however government health and safety legislation leaves little for headteachers to make their own judgment and that is wrong. Also next time we have headlines about “sick days” costing the country millions I will remind the same people. This blog does not have a membership neither will the website, to be honest I don’t know many/any that have
[note from admin : if anyone does know how to add membership to a blog let us know I would be very interested to see how it is done]
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British can’t handle snow?
What about Killer Flu Pandemic Alert?
You’re already supposed to be ready at home and in community contingency preparations for (long-forseen) staff, infrastructure, and import disruptions.
People should take at look at current human H5N1 cases at, “Recombinomics” under, “What’s New”
and read the open letter about timely school closings to save childrens’ lives, at “StudentsPrepAmerica.org”
and, click on the blue, WHO H5N1 age/outcome chart in the top right corner of, “The Flu Wiki” site’s main page.
Does Britiain have a site to help families get ready to cope with no vaccine (and possibly no effective antiviral; all the “seasonal” flus worldwide now are acquiring the gene snip H5N1 needs to break current “Rapid Respons and Containment” zones abroad, and H5N1 is remaining fatal without Tamiflu at symptom onset).
Can British citizens make a UK version of the free resources at “GetPandemicReady.org” ?
I suggest we all get off this womans back she is writting a blog and does not say she supports the views of all parents, except me for me I am with her all the way
Thank you for all the positive comments I hope the BBC contacts me. My word is my bond I can take all the flack as long as parents in the main and more importantly children get a fair deal scream at me all you like my shoulders and broad. Will try harder next time apologies for giving you a bad day. All I was trying to do was help schools.
The linking of adults who take time off because they are ill and the closure of schools due to snow is really incomprehensible.. It strikes me that the person who made these links is really rather confused and ill informed. Perhaps its time for people to wake up and realise that the victorian values of obedience to the workplace and of placing the needs of capital before the family have served only to land us in the social mess that we inhabit.
There is nothing wrong with sick days nor of children taking days off.. life is too short to not have fun whenever you can.
Margaret Morrissey seems to speak less for the children and parents of this country and more for the petty minded individuals of the FSB and the Inland Revenue.
I think this ‘storm in a teacup’ has gravitated the ‘politically correct’ culture to new lows.
To suggest that ‘when it gets tough, just stay at home and have fun’ sends the wrong message to children is as inane as it is rediculous!
As a father of 4 girls, aged 5, 6, 8, and 9 respectively, I believe in, and practice a strong policy of discipline, and fully believe in making a commitment and seeing it through. This attitude has had, and will continue to be a part of my and my families way of life.
However, there are a few things we cannot control, and the weather is one of those.
I would much prefer my children to be at home if there is any chance of danger elsewhere, and icy playgrounds and roads would certainly fall into that category.
My children adore their school and school life, but snow of any merit falls all too infrequently.
Some children never have an opportunity to play in good quality snow, unlike the more priviledged amongst us.
To that end, it seems overbearing, and in this case interfering for a non elected spokesperson, of a ‘group’ which seems to consist of only one member, to be communicating a so-called message on my behalf, when, in reality, many schools were under staffed and in some cases dangerous.
Given that any change regarding the status of a school takes some time to disseminate, it surely must make sense to err on the side of safety, and give people a timely warning that they need to make alternative arrangements.
Personally, I think that those people making the noises about not being able to go to work, and therefore having to look after their own children, are the unfortunate generation of, and portraying the worst aspects of Thatcherism.
I wanted children, and I want to raise them, not fob them off on ‘minders’ etc.
I work, I am the M.D. of a small company and I work around my family, not the other way around.
It strikes me that Ms Morrisey is suffering from a severe case of self importance, and, as such, is not in touch with realities of the real world – after all, we are only talking about a few days off school at most, not serial truancy!
Going out to play in the snow is good for kids. Not going to school when there is some proper snow is NOT saying “give up” it is instead saying “This is special, make the most of it”.
I work for a local authority in Devon and if I hadnt gone to work today I would have had to use flexi time or annual leave. What happens to the hours the staff at school didnt work today, will they lose hours or pay, I very much doubt it. Most children live within 500 yards of our school too. I made it to work, yes it was a treacherous journey but I was dammed if I was going to lose a days leave. My husband happened to have a day off today (he has a rolling day off a week and it was today luckily)
Alex as a teacher I can safely say that we had two days off and got paid for them. Thats why we teach, great holidays and snow benefits!
Margaret,
Just look at this sections of the BBC News website to see how families were using the unique opportunity to have fun but also learn about a little about the physics of snow.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7867556.stm
I think many, many children had an enjoyable, educational day outside with their friends and families getting much needed physical activity.
I’m a teacher and feel I have to write here after hearing your comments on the news. I may be repeating what has been said by others, but feel it is important I
Playing in the snow children learn so much more than they would have, sitting at school wishing they were playing in the snow!
You yourself have written in this blog
“…but will not sit back and see childhood taken away from our sons and daughters, see children so stressed by education at 7 they cannot enjoy learning.”
Comments such as yours, about setting a bad example by leaving work for one day of fun, are the sort that can directly lead to what you claim to stand against.
When children are adults they can learn the lessons of adults – and wake up early to walk to work to learn them. But while they are children please, please let them learn the so valuable lessons that running outside with their friends in the snow can teach them. Don’t take those so special experiences away from them!
It appears you said that: ” We are giving children the wrong message that when things get difficult you just stay at home and have fun. As a teacher and a parent I think it is amazing for children to have fun and so sad that you think it is a bad thing no wonder your group is called Parents Outloud and not children .
Paul
Thanks – I think the world’s going mad, or maybe it’s me
)
Liberty to express opinions is so important, but when someone vociferously suggests that closing schools very rarely indeed, such as in the recent extreme weather conditions, gives children the wrong idea, and then links that to work sick notes, I could hardly believe what I was reading.
The other media report this week that British children are the least happy in Europe, and that too many parents are heartless in their treatment, gets a big boost of up-to-the minute evidence from Ms. Morrisey.
When parents stop trying to sue schools for accidents for which no blame attaches, then heads will surely feel safer in keeping schools open when weather conditions are marginal. Until then, who wouldn’t err on the side of caution?
Physics of snow indeed! Now I’ve heard them all. Well done Margaret. Teachers often get a hard time, but they’ve brought this mini-backlash upon themselves.
In Brighton our roads were open, trains running, blue skies, papers delivered and parents at work – but schools closed for a second day. There’s more than a whiff of doubt about their integrity and intention.
Donald,
That’s as may be but what was or wasn’t operational in Brighton doesn’t represent the rest of the country, or even the rest of East Sussex dare I say!
Regards to Physics of snow – yes it does exist but maybe you aren’t sufficiently qualified in Physics to understand that. Properties of water, properties of the different states (liquid, solid)..they may seem a far cry from playing in the snow but my young child learnt a lot about water in this solid state.
Dare I ask the last time you experimented with water in this way??
Whilst there will undoubtedly be some schools that closed lightly, the majority I believe had to remain closed for good reason. If the radio and TV broadcasts are encouraging us to remain inside unless it is absolutely necessary to go out then almost every worker, as well as teachers and pupils, shouldn’t attempt to go on out. Not my idea, but the people who are our public information network.
Teachers generally don’t live within walking distance to their school which means they will have a tougher journey to work. If the staff can’t get in, the school has to close. It’s as simple as that.
I do think that if as a country we were a bit more organised then schools and other things could remain open. Most could have, for instance, opened 10am-2pm, when visibility and ice would be less of an issue.
I agree with you all the way. We are developing a bunch of namby pambys. My children go to a local small school with the majority of children living close by, there was absolutely no reason to close my sons school. I deliberately drove to it to see how bad the supposed roads were and was able to drive right up outside with no problems at all. Although I got a call to say the school was closed I noticed that the decision had not been made at the school as there were no tyre tracks to indicated anyone had come in to assess. The decision was made elsewhere from the comfort of a warm bed I suspect! What did we do in the 60′s and 70′s during the snow, we put our boots on and everyone walked, nowadays everyone thinks the only way to get anywhere is by car.
As a parent in Leicestershire, I am very glad that children have been sent home, especially in rural areas. Yes, there is the safety aspect – but I think it far more important that we have allowed children to be children for a couple of days, and get out there and enjoy themselves. My daughter got soaked twice on Monday playing in the snow! It was also brilliant going out for a walk, and seeing whole families play together.
We take life far too seriously nowadays – there is far too much pressure on children – especially in Primary Schools. So please – stop whingeing and moaning, and accept that sometimes we all need to let our hair down!
Ted, in very white Leicestershire!
Our child went to nursery yesterday and had a fabulous time playing in the snow without about 15 other children there. We are really glad we took her. She loved it!
We kept on the major roads but they were all gritted. Well done Kent Highways.
I don’t think it is fair for Margaret Morrissey to say the closures yesterday and Monday sent the wrong signals to children “that when things get difficult, you should just stay at home and have fun”. Has she condisdered the practicalities of teachers getting into work when the weather was that bad? We don’t all live within walking distance of our schools and driving in that weather would have been stupid. I agree the pupils loose out on classroom time, but surely that is better than loosing out on a teacher altogether because he/she had to drive in treacherous conditions and died? Ok that maybe extreem, but it could happen. If everyone stays safe surely that is the best thing to do in such conditions?
Please don’t just blame the schools. The school I work at stayed open, with as many staff as could strugging in. However, only about 180 pupils out of 1500 made it in andf those that did, a significant number were taken home early by their parents. If a wrong message is being given to them, who is giving it? Not the school or the staff.
Why don’t we think about the positive benefits that these unique weather conditions bring. The opportunity for children to freely explore, interact with one another in spontaneous physical activity/games, to make adventure. Since most of the country is affected we’re all in the same boat. Let’s not get all “hung up” and start preaching from our thrones. Relax, and look at the opportunity it brings for parents to spend time with their children. How often do you get a real life science or geography lesson on your doorstep.
I totally ioved having my 5year old home even though i had to cancel 2 days of work, these things dont happen every day and after all this was extreme weather .In surrey where we live none of the roads or paths were gritted and still havent been so my daughters safety is a first her school has reopened today but i still concider it to be unsafe as roads around the school and pathways are still not gritted,WHY does someone need to have a serious accident for people to take notice.
I feel I must take issue with your statements regarding school closure. I’d like to think that my wife (a teacher herself in charge of a pre school nursery which also closed Monday and Tuesday) and I are conscientious people. If our (nearly) 15-year son’s school, 5 miles from home, had been open on Monday, I very much doubt if we would have allowed him to attend given over 12 inches of snow and the complete lack of public transport in our area. We doubt if any teachers would have been able to reach the school as many do not live “just around the corner” from school these days.
While at home, we ensured that he continued with his course work and music practices. We did go out for about an hour to “have fun” in the snow but certainly did not while away the whole day in this manner. It must be down to parents and carers to set an example and impress on their young people that this is a rare occasion beyond our control, but work should go on.
Finally I am no psychologist but I fail to see a link between being snowed in while at school and pulling “sickies” when grown up!
IMHO I think the schools should stay open and the parents should get their children there if they can.
Personally I do not work in education I work as a window cleaner. I went to work as normal. Everyone else I know (sorry none of them are teachers) also went to work.
I did not feel like I am an overly relaxed person but I was not in a panic that if I went outside I was putting my life at some massive danger!. Sorry if that sounds over dramatic but some of the comments on here definitely do sound a bit like that. Just my 2 cents worth
Parents are demanding to know why more than 23,000 pupils and teachers had the day off after 57 primary and secondary schools in the north of the county closed.
Thousands of parents had to make alternative childcare arrangements for their sons and daughters after the schools stayed shut following the heavy snow on Monday.
Headteachers said they were forced to close because staff were unable to get to work, but the police and ambulance service said there were no major problems on the roads.
Many parents believe schools and teachers over-reacted, and with more snow forecast later in the week, fear they will have to make more last-minute childcare plans.
Good Work Margaret ! above is a clip from the link below just to help balance up the comments a bit..
Evening Telegraph
I travel a long distance to work every day. Over the last few days I had to leave earlier to get to work but no problems otherwise.
Are schools and teachers so different to others ?
Unfortunately jobs are hard to keep these days and I am fighting to keep my job so could not afford to take extra time off to play with my kids in the snow all day (of course I would of loved to).
Sorry to sound like a killjoy but I feel a little bitter as this closure cost me at a time where money is a bit scarce to be honest.
From reading above I get the feeling I am in the minority as a lot seem to be able to take time of work for this.. I am jealous that this an option for them
Im a self employed hairdresser so when all my clients cancelled their apointments on monday i was out of pocket big time but i could not expect people to break a limb to line my pockets. I agree this has come at a really hard time i have a 5 year old, a baby on the way and a large mortgage but these things cant be helped and i really loved having her home with me while the school was shut,but things will just have to be a bit tight this week.
Life is short. Please can we just let children be children? Surely with the national obesity epidemic a day or 2 of fun and activity in the snow is far better than a treacherous journey to school then sitting down all day?
Most teachers and pupils from our primary school live within walking distance (2 miles) but the school was still shut for 4 days this week! Why is it not safe for teachers to get to work when everyone else is able to or at least trying to? I work in a hospital, if I don’t go to work patients don’t get seen. I had to take time off work because the school was closed and knew I was letting patients down as a result. I was also furious when I saw some of the teachers playing in the snow, could they not at least “pretend” to be doing some work from home? And if they have been able to do some work at home, does this mean we can cancel the next few inset days?
As a teacher I had no say in the closure of my school. I live 17 miles away from my school and so was more than willing to get the train in but was informed that the school bus service ran by the county would not be running . As the majority of my students use this it was felt that owing to safety the school should be shut. In my 7 yrs of teaching I have only taken approx 3 days off with any illness and resent the fact that I am being criticised for not being in.
2 days off is not the end of the world I would like to ask parents what happens if your child is ill? Do you send them into to school because you are so concerned with them missing their education, though of course if they make other children ill it is fine for someone else’s child to miss school through illness as long as YOU are not put out. Or those parents who take a holiday during school time, my child needs an education but not as much as I need to save a hundred quid, how do you explain to them that those two weeks you took them out of school, one for summer and one for winter amounted to them losing a whole year by the time they leave the school system and that is why they can’t secure a decent job. I suggest that you realise that being a parent can be inconvenience and before you blame teachers you take a long hard look at yourselves and the society that YOU are perpetuating.
As a teacher who actually loves his job, I have a couple of points to make.
I find it hard to take when irate people (parents or otherwise) criticise schools for closing perhaps on two days each winter but conveniently ignore the fact that ;
local councils have not gritted some main roads, let alone secondary roads on which most people live which thus prevents drivers from reaching main roads, so the blame lies with the council, not the school, as ….
in most secondary schools the average teacher has to travel at least 10-15 miles to school ……
likewise, many pupils have to be transported several miles as they do not live within walking distance of their school ……
if a child or a teacher was killed in a snow-related accident no doubt the same people who berate schools for closing in impossible weather would berate them for putting human lives at risk.
It’s a no-win situation for all concerned, isn’t it?
And I don’t subscribe to the educational value of snow – I hate the stuff for causing such disruption, uncertainty and danger!
Me again!
I forgot to mention that in the town where I live, no buses or even taxis were running after 8.00 last night, so my (grown-up) son had to trek 3 miles through snow after getting off the train which had brought him from his place of work.
This morning no buses, taxis or trains were running, so it was no surprise that most secondary schools were closed for the day.
There are certain times when commonsense just has to prevail, and as a fellow teacher posted earlier, we have no say at all in whether our school shuts or opens. And yes, we are expected to work from home as we all have laptops which can connect to our school network and can thus email other colleagues important documents and achieve outcomes ; similarly, our pupils can access their homework on the virtual learning platform …… perhaps one day (well after I have retired!) most teaching and learning will be done from home – and that will require a whole new approach from parents and society (the very word which Mrs. Thatcher, whose meddling caused so much undue pressure for accountability from everyone, denied the existence of!)
Personally, I can’t wait to get back to the classroom, but as my nextdoor neighbour is a driving instructor who has had to cancel several lessons today would say,in the words of Perry Como “it’s impossible!” – if he can’t drive in it,who can?
As sensible voice said; Many Staff have to travel a fair distance to reach their school in bad weather, I’m sure many parents think teachers actually live in school!!!
Some children come on a minibus from the outskirts to my local school, if that was my child I would hate to think of the bus skidding around the road with them in it just to get to school, yes it’s important to get an education, but a Life is worth a whole lot more!
A school is a place for children to learn, not for childcare while parents go off to work!
You will also find that when a school is closed teachers will have to use the time for their planning.(it is not a 9 to 5 job with lunchbreaks either).
No I’m not a teacher, I’m a parent of 2 children whose school is often closed due to bad weather as its on high ground ,although I have worked in a school so I see both sides!
Yes other countries can cope with these conditions but you have to remember a lot of schools were built many many years ago and with little money for improvements, hence heating and plumbing problems.
I have read most of the comments on this latest ‘cold snap’ as we used to call it, or in ‘old money’ to use a hackneyed cliche.
Let me offer my credentials for making that comment and the following observations:
In 1954, I was 10 years old, we lived in Aberdeen, our RAF-rented house was about 1 mile from my school and about 6 miles to RAF Dyce, where my father was a ‘Technical Officer’ (Sqn Engineering Officer in today’s Service) on an RAF Auxiliary Squadron.
That winter we had an overnight fall of 18 inches of pure snow. When I was ready for school, after a breakfast of porridge (what else), my mother made sure my Dunlop® wellies were on the correct feet, and as I stepped out into the wondrous almost virginal snow, ( I say almost because there was evidence of shovels having been used, the menfolk in our road had cleared their respective paths) my father had cleared our path and drive and he had long gone to work in the RAF Land Rover Mk1 supplied by the Sqn.
I set off for school, pleased as punch to walk off-path (off-piste) into the roadside kicking the smooth snow, careful not to get it inside my welly-tops (I failed of course, but no matter, I had spare socks in my bag with my school shoes, you see parents planned ahead then)and picked my way to school on the pavements – they had either been swept by the locals or trodden-down by the various tradesmen about their business; the milkman, the baker, butcher, corner-shop owner, the paper-boy, the bus drivers and conductors who were already on their second return runs by 0830.
After a gentle snowball fight and a snowman building project in the playground the bell for assembly rang and on entering the Main Hall lo and behold, there before us were the staff, all teachers present and correct. Few of them owned a car, if they did, ‘lift-sharing’ operated even then, or they cycled, or took the bus to school. We all got there. it wasn’t so much a case of ‘pioneering spirit’ just a desire to get the job done, a sense of duty. And we had fun.
Now, over half a century on, it snows and the UK grinds to a halt. Would you like to know why I believe this is happening? Because outside of the Military, fewer people than ever have that sense of duty, no pride in making the effort and achieving something special. It is all about ‘ME’ and how much do I get out of it. To quote one of the ‘Lieder’ from Cabaret (Liza Minnelli) it’s all ‘Money, money, money’ (repeat).
I understand the plight of today’s parent; you can’t let your beautiful child (your feelings) walk to school because of the slight off-chance of them being in the view of a particularly loathsome specimen of the human race.
Had it been necessary in 1954, my mother would have bundled my two younger bothers into the double ‘Silver Cross®’ pram and walked me there, then capitalized on the situation by doing any local shopping required and then going back home.
Meanwhile my father had taken care to reach the main road to RAF Dyce using the fabled Land-Rover’s big chunky-tread-ed tyres to move skid-free along our road; once on the main route, it was easy going because lorries, milk-floats and buses had all been there before.
I know because I was there. Sadly my daughter was known to give her sons a ‘duvet-day’ if conditions were marginal, before she moved to France with her ‘usband and my precious grandsons. I think she ran off to escape my criticisms.
But here we are enjoying the snow (not) staying at home because our infrastructure cannot cope with the ‘cold snap’ costing the economy billions in lost business.
And the answer to the question that has been forming in your mind while you were reading this?
Oh yes, I am a retired Serviceman, 30 years man and boy in the Royal Air Force. During that time in 1982 we experienced temperatures of minus 22°C with snow, and I distinctly recall driving the 11 miles to RAF ******* to join my crew to fly ‘overseas’ at 0300. Sure, I did slide the car once, as I left my drive, then caution and concentration took over and I arrived safely at the base; with some sense of achievement and pleasure on meeting the other 4 crew members. But then we all had a sense of duty, in more ways than one.
That’s it, good evening – and ‘drive safely’.
I would like to point out the story being commented on was in 2009 and so are many of the responses , it is interesting last year it was frowned on that Parentsoutloud said people gave in to easily not really what I meant but that’s the press and this year many people are beginning to agree. Also when I said we used to clear our own pavenment area etc councils said no or we would be sued now they are suggesting we do it and clear as much as we can. I have reached the age when I feel say what I believe it usually ends up being right if you are just using common sense. I totally agreee with the comment on school closure and teachers not being babysitters I do think companies have to recognise parents role and the need to take time off when schools are closed no one should be taking a 4 year old through snow and ice to school.
Why can’t four-year-olds be walked through snow and ice to school – excepting for black ice conditions when no-one should be out at all?
Schools can’t open mainly because teachers live too far away from schools – headmasters should only employ teachers who live within walkable distance to schools. The same goes for many employers.
Having said that, too many headteachers have no common senese. There is one in my area who is sending kids home because they are coming to school in boots (suitable for the weather) which don’t ‘meet’ the school uniform.
Where is the common sense these days.
As for community spirit, I cleared my drive and pavement and even the road outside my home – if everyone had done the same on the street there would not be problems!
Old Timer – you make some sensible points with which I agree (I was one of only three people on our street who cleared and gritted the road outside our house), but how on earth can you even suggest that headteachers should only appoint teachers if they live within walking distance of the school? Even back in the 1960s when I was at school myself, most of my teachers lived several miles from school ; the mind boggles at such a suggestion!
The ultimate responsibility for clearing and gritting roads rests with local government, who are of course (under)funded by central government.
Of course the Government is to blame; I mean who made it snow afterall!
Roads have never been cleared properly in this country for as along as I can remember (whatever the colour of the Government) . . . quite simply we don’t have the infrastructure because snow events are so irregular.
It is councils which choose how to spend money on the whole, not Governments – broadly speaking I know.
Perhaps it is now time to address those infrastructure issues – make people on the ‘dole’ and prisoners clear pavements and roads, for example, as happens in the USA.
As for teachers living within walking distance of their schools, it makes every sense. Or perhaps, they could make the effort to stay within walking distance in bad weather, as happened at the place where I work (not a school).
Though I do applaud those schools this winter who made work available for pupils over schools’ internet and intranet websites so that pupils could study from home.
People give up too easily in terms of taking responsibility for getting themselves to work.
If we all had a ‘snow day’, where would the electricity be, where would the gas be, etc etc?
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